Obama Live From Berlin Thread

At around 1pm Eastern time, Obama will give the only public speech from his European tour. Live from Berlin...

Any crowd estimates?

Update [2008-7-24 13:27:58 by Josh Orton]: ustream link down...so use the CNN stream here.

Update [2008-7-24 13:39:26 by Josh Orton]: Full speech text posted after the jump...

Update [2008-7-24 14:7:21 by Josh Orton]: In the comments, Jerome says Spiegel online pegs the crowd at 100k, Obama's largest ever.

Update [2008-7-24 14:34:26 by Josh Orton]: Others in the comments hear 215k(!).

Remarks of Senator Barack Obama (as prepared for delivery)
"A World that Stands as One"
July 24th, 2008
Berlin, Germany

Thank you to the citizens of Berlin and to the people of Germany. Let me thank Chancellor Merkel and Foreign Minister Steinmeier for welcoming me earlier today. Thank you Mayor Wowereit, the Berlin Senate, the police, and most of all thank you for this welcome.

I come to Berlin as so many of my countrymen have come before.  Tonight, I speak to you not as a candidate for President, but as a citizen - a proud citizen of the United States, and a fellow citizen of the world.

I know that I don't look like the Americans who've previously spoken in this great city. The journey that led me here is improbable. My mother was born in the heartland of America, but my father grew up herding goats in Kenya. His father - my grandfather - was a cook, a domestic servant to the British.

At the height of the Cold War, my father decided, like so many others in the forgotten corners of the world, that his yearning - his dream - required the freedom and opportunity promised by the West. And so he wrote letter after letter to universities all across America until somebody, somewhere answered his prayer for a better life.

That is why I'm here. And you are here because you too know that yearning. This city, of all cities, knows the dream of freedom. And you know that the only reason we stand here tonight is because men and women from both of our nations came together to work, and struggle, and sacrifice for that better life.

Ours is a partnership that truly began sixty years ago this summer, on the day when the first American plane touched down at Templehof.

On that day, much of this continent still lay in ruin.  The rubble of this city had yet to be built into a wall. The Soviet shadow had swept across Eastern Europe, while in the West, America, Britain, and France took stock of their losses, and pondered how the world might be remade.

This is where the two sides met.  And on the twenty-fourth of June, 1948, the Communists chose to blockade the western part of the city.  They cut off food and supplies to more than two million Germans in an effort to extinguish the last flame of freedom in Berlin.

The size of our forces was no match for the much larger Soviet Army. And yet retreat would have allowed Communism to march across Europe. Where the last war had ended, another World War could have easily begun. All that stood in the way was Berlin.

And that's when the airlift began - when the largest and most unlikely rescue in history brought food and hope to the people of this city.

The odds were stacked against success.  In the winter, a heavy fog filled the sky above, and many planes were forced to turn back without dropping off the needed supplies. The streets where we stand were filled with hungry families who had no comfort from the cold.

But in the darkest hours, the people of Berlin kept the flame of hope burning. The people of Berlin refused to give up. And on one fall day, hundreds of thousands of Berliners came here, to the Tiergarten, and heard the city's mayor implore the world not to give up on freedom. "There is only one possibility," he said.  "For us to stand together united until this battle is won...The people of Berlin have spoken.  We have done our duty, and we will keep on doing our duty. People of the world: now do your duty...People of the world, look at Berlin!"

People of the world - look at Berlin!

Look at Berlin, where Germans and Americans learned to work together and trust each other less than three years after facing each other on the field of battle.

Look at Berlin, where the determination of a people met the generosity of the Marshall Plan and created a German miracle; where a victory over tyranny gave rise to NATO, the greatest alliance ever formed to defend our common security.

Look at Berlin, where the bullet holes in the buildings and the somber stones and pillars near the Brandenburg Gate insist that we never forget our common humanity.

People of the world - look at Berlin, where a wall came down, a continent came together, and history proved that there is no challenge too great for a world that stands as one.  

Sixty years after the airlift, we are called upon again. History has led us to a new crossroad, with new promise and new peril. When you, the German people, tore down that wall - a wall that divided East and West; freedom and tyranny; fear and hope - walls came tumbling down around the world. From Kiev to Cape Town, prison camps were closed, and the doors of democracy were opened. Markets opened too, and the spread of information and technology reduced barriers to opportunity and prosperity. While the 20th century taught us that we share a common destiny, the 21st has revealed a world more intertwined than at any time in human history.

The fall of the Berlin Wall brought new hope. But that very closeness has given rise to new dangers - dangers that cannot be contained within the borders of a country or by the distance of an ocean.  

The terrorists of September 11th plotted in Hamburg and trained in Kandahar and Karachi before killing thousands from all over the globe on American soil.  

As we speak, cars in Boston and factories in Beijing are melting the ice caps in the Arctic, shrinking coastlines in the Atlantic, and bringing drought to farms from Kansas to Kenya.

Poorly secured nuclear material in the former Soviet Union, or secrets from a scientist in Pakistan could help build a bomb that detonates in Paris. The poppies in Afghanistan become the heroin in Berlin. The poverty and violence in Somalia breeds the terror of tomorrow. The genocide in Darfur shames the conscience of us all.

In this new world, such dangerous currents have swept along faster than our efforts to contain them. That is why we cannot afford to be divided. No one nation, no matter how large or powerful, can defeat such challenges alone.  None of us can deny these threats, or escape responsibility in meeting them. Yet, in the absence of Soviet tanks and a terrible wall, it has become easy to forget this truth. And if we're honest with each other, we know that sometimes, on both sides of the Atlantic, we have drifted apart, and forgotten our shared destiny.

In Europe, the view that America is part of what has gone wrong in our world, rather than a force to help make it right, has become all too common. In America, there are voices that deride and deny the importance of Europe's role in our security and our future. Both views miss the truth - that Europeans today are bearing new burdens and taking more responsibility in critical parts of the world; and that just as American bases built in the last century still help to defend the security of this continent, so does our country still sacrifice greatly for freedom around the globe.

Yes, there have been differences between America and Europe. No doubt, there will be differences in the future. But the burdens of global citizenship continue to bind us together. A change of leadership in Washington will not lift this burden. In this new century, Americans and Europeans alike will be required to do more - not less. Partnership and cooperation among nations is not a choice; it is the one way, the only way, to protect our common security and advance our common humanity.

That is why the greatest danger of all is to allow new walls to divide us from one another.
The walls between old allies on either side of the Atlantic cannot stand.  The walls between the countries with the most and those with the least cannot stand.  The walls between races and tribes; natives and immigrants; Christian and Muslim and Jew cannot stand.  These now are the walls we must tear down.

We know they have fallen before. After centuries of strife, the people of Europe have formed a Union of promise and prosperity. Here, at the base of a column built to mark victory in war, we meet in the center of a Europe at peace. Not only have walls come down in Berlin, but they have come down in Belfast, where Protestant and Catholic found a way to live together; in the Balkans, where our Atlantic alliance ended wars and brought savage war criminals to justice; and in South Africa, where the struggle of a courageous people defeated apartheid.

So history reminds us that walls can be torn down. But the task is never easy.  True partnership and true progress requires constant work and sustained sacrifice.  They require sharing the burdens of development and diplomacy; of progress and peace. They require allies who will listen to each other, learn from each other and, most of all, trust each other.

That is why America cannot turn inward.  That is why Europe cannot turn inward.  America has no better partner than Europe. Now is the time to build new bridges across the globe as strong as the one that bound us across the Atlantic.  Now is the time to join together, through constant cooperation, strong institutions, shared sacrifice, and a global commitment to progress, to meet the challenges of the 21st century. It was this spirit that led airlift planes to appear in the sky above our heads, and people to assemble where we stand today.  And this is the moment when our nations - and all nations - must summon that spirit anew.

This is the moment when we must defeat terror and dry up the well of extremism that supports it.  This threat is real and we cannot shrink from our responsibility to combat it. If we could create NATO to face down the Soviet Union, we can join in a new and global partnership to dismantle the networks that have struck in Madrid and Amman; in London and Bali; in Washington and New York.  If we could win a battle of ideas against the communists, we can stand with the vast majority of Muslims who reject the extremism that leads to hate instead of hope.

This is the moment when we must renew our resolve to rout the terrorists who threaten our security in Afghanistan, and the traffickers who sell drugs on your streets.  No one welcomes war. I recognize the enormous difficulties in Afghanistan.  But my country and yours have a stake in seeing that NATO's first mission beyond Europe's borders is a success. For the people of Afghanistan, and for our shared security, the work must be done.  America cannot do this alone.  The Afghan people need our troops and your troops; our support and your support to defeat the Taliban and al Qaeda, to develop their economy, and to help them rebuild their nation.  We have too much at stake to turn back now.

This is the moment when we must renew the goal of a world without nuclear weapons.  The two superpowers that faced each other across the wall of this city came too close too often to destroying all we have built and all that we love.  With that wall gone, we need not stand idly by and watch the further spread of the deadly atom. It is time to secure all loose nuclear materials; to stop the spread of nuclear weapons; and to reduce the arsenals from another era. This is the moment to begin the work of seeking the peace of a world without nuclear weapons.

This is the moment when every nation in Europe must have the chance to choose its own tomorrow free from the shadows of yesterday.  In this century, we need a strong European Union that deepens the security and prosperity of this continent, while extending a hand abroad.  In this century - in this city of all cities - we must reject the Cold War mind-set of the past, and resolve to work with Russia when we can, to stand up for our values when we must, and to seek a partnership that extends across this entire continent.

This is the moment when we must build on the wealth that open markets have created, and share its benefits more equitably.  Trade has been a cornerstone of our growth and global development.  But we will not be able to sustain this growth if it favors the few, and not the many.  Together, we must forge trade that truly rewards the work that creates wealth, with meaningful protections for our people and our planet.  This is the moment for trade that is free and fair for all.

This is the moment we must help answer the call for a new dawn in the Middle East. My country must stand with yours and with Europe in sending a direct message to Iran that it must abandon its nuclear ambitions. We must support the Lebanese who have marched and bled for democracy, and the Israelis and Palestinians who seek a secure and lasting peace. And despite past differences, this is the moment when the world should support the millions of Iraqis who seek to rebuild their lives, even as we pass responsibility to the Iraqi government and finally bring this war to a close.

This is the moment when we must come together to save this planet.  Let us resolve that we will not leave our children a world where the oceans rise and famine spreads and terrible storms devastate our lands.  Let us resolve that all nations - including my own - will act with the same seriousness of purpose as has your nation, and reduce the carbon we send into our atmosphere.  This is the moment to give our children back their future. This is the moment to stand as one.

And this is the moment when we must give hope to those left behind in a globalized world. We must remember that the Cold War born in this city was not a battle for land or treasure. Sixty years ago, the planes that flew over Berlin did not drop bombs; instead they delivered food, and coal, and candy to grateful children. And in that show of solidarity, those pilots won more than a military victory. They won hearts and minds; love and loyalty and trust - not just from the people in this city, but from all those who heard the story of what they did here.

Now the world will watch and remember what we do here - what we do with this moment.  Will we extend our hand to the people in the forgotten corners of this world who yearn for lives marked by dignity and opportunity; by security and justice? Will we lift the child in Bangladesh from poverty, shelter the refugee in Chad, and banish the scourge of AIDS in our time?

Will we stand for the human rights of the dissident in Burma, the blogger in Iran, or the voter in Zimbabwe?  Will we give meaning to the words "never again" in Darfur?

Will we acknowledge that there is no more powerful example than the one each of our nations projects to the world?  Will we reject torture and stand for the rule of law?  Will we welcome immigrants from different lands, and shun discrimination against those who don't look like us or worship like we do, and keep the promise of equality and opportunity for all of our people?

People of Berlin - people of the world - this is our moment.  This is our time.

I know my country has not perfected itself.  At times, we've struggled to keep the promise of liberty and equality for all of our people.  We've made our share of mistakes, and there are times when our actions around the world have not lived up to our best intentions.

But I also know how much I love America. I know that for more than two centuries, we have strived - at great cost and great sacrifice - to form a more perfect union; to seek, with other nations, a more hopeful world.  Our allegiance has never been to any particular tribe or kingdom - indeed, every language is spoken in our country; every culture has left its imprint on ours; every point of view is expressed in our public squares. What has always united us - what has always driven our people; what drew my father to America's shores - is a set of ideals that speak to aspirations shared by all people: that we can live free from fear and free from want; that we can speak our minds and assemble with whomever we choose and worship as we please.  

These are the aspirations that joined the fates of all nations in this city. These aspirations are bigger than anything that drives us apart. It is because of these aspirations that the airlift began. It is because of these aspirations that all free people - everywhere - became citizens of Berlin. It is in pursuit of these aspirations that a new generation - our generation - must make our mark on the world.  

People of Berlin - and people of the world - the scale of our challenge is great.  The road ahead will be long. But I come before you to say that we are heirs to a struggle for freedom. We are a people of improbable hope.  With an eye toward the future, with resolve in our hearts, let us remember this history, and answer our destiny, and remake the world once again.

###



Display:


Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

this:
>------------------------------------ ---------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------& lt;
many people.
I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 12:56:01 PM EST

A kajillion, give or minus a couple bazillion. n/t (none / 0)


by Geekesque on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:01:00 PM EST

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

As I'm waiting for the speech to begin, I thought I'd recommend this article on how the tracking polls are coming up with numbers that show a narrower race than the other national polls.

"Since the beginning of May, over 74 days of polling, the Gallup tracking poll has shown Barack Obama with an average lead of 1.6 percentage points over John McCain. During the same time period, the Rasmussen tracking poll, over 76 days of polling, has shown Obama with an average lead of 1.8 percentage points. But during the exact same time period, 38 other national polls have shown Obama with an average lead of 5.2 percentage points."

Furthermore, the two tracking polls often change in OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS.

"The lack of any correlation between the two polls suggests that these changes are a result of random statistical noise rather than any real shift in the underlying preferences of the electorate. In fact, the results of other national polls indicate that there has been little or no change in voter preferences over the past three months: the average Obama lead was 5.1 points in May, 5.3 points in June, and 5.2 points in July."

As the author, a political scientist and expert on polls recommends, "political junkies should take their daily dose of Rasmussen and Gallup with a large grain of salt."
http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystal ball/article.php?id=AIA2008072402


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:01:02 PM EST

Good point (2.00 / 1)

We need to look at the longterm results.

Pollsters have different weighting models. And sometimes the models change by the same pollsters.

I'm glad the trip is ending soon, though. When Obama turns to the economy again, he will move up in the polls again.


by elrod on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:07:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm okay with that (none / 0)

I'm fine with being told that the lead isn't as large as it actually is.  Makes us work harder.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:16:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm okay with that (none / 0)

true, complacency seems to be the Dems worst enemy.  In my heart of hearts I think that's what really cost Kerry in 2004.


by tlhwraith on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:01:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm okay with that (none / 0)

It seems to be rearing its ugly head this year.


I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:02:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

On MSNBC, they said around 100,000, which seems more right than 1,000,000. I also noticed that someone in the crowd was holding up the picture of him riding a bike with his shirt tucked in, and I'm not sure if that was meant to be sarcastic or not.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:04:52 PM EST

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

i always thought the million number was to set expectations to high. So what will they say now--a few hundred thousand is disappointing.


The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers. -- Thomas Jefferson
by pollbuster on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:13:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Stream isn't working for me (none / 0)

CNN has one that does.


by semiquaver on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:12:23 PM EST

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

What band is playing?


by Iceblinkjm on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:23:28 PM EST

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germ any/0,1518,567821,00.html

100K


by Jerome Armstrong on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:24:13 PM EST

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (2.00 / 1)

Huh.  He's giving an awfully, uh... I'm not sure how well US-as-the-essential-nation-what-gives-fr eedom-to-the-poor-benighted-peoples-of-t he-world will go over in a European capital.


I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:31:07 PM EST

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

The European audience isn't his target.


by Angry White Democrat on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:35:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

I'm aware, but audience reaction matters.

At any rate, that part of the speech ended quickly and without harm other than applause lines that got no applause.


I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:41:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's the flip of the Kennedy speech (none / 0)

where Berliners represented all free citizens of the world.


by catfish2 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:23:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

Uniting the world is what he's talking about.

My keyboard is soaked. How's yours?


by klevenstein on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:39:32 PM EST

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

This man is so awesome. I am drinking the kool-aid and it tastes so good.

Holli De Groote a strong supporter of Hillary Clinton and the next President of the United States of America, Barack Obama.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:45:06 PM EST

hah..he gave an awesome speech.. (none / 0)


by louisprandtl on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:50:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

I really wish I could be in Berlin right now. This has got to be one of the greatest speeches I have ever heard of. Ever.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:47:12 PM EST

Ich bin ein Berliner: Holide? (none / 0)


by louisprandtl on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:52:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ich bin ein Berliner: Holide? (2.00 / 2)

This went beyond that. This was "We are ALL Berliners".

I was afraid that he went a bit too far with the whole globalized, united bit, but I think anyone who actually cares to find out can see the truth. Obama called for Europe to help fight the war on terror and he got them to cheer. If you're a Republican, you ought to be asking yourself whether your candidate could do that.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:58:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Me, Not a Republican. My candidate certainly (none / 0)

can do it....:)


by louisprandtl on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:16:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ich bin ein Berliner: Holide? (none / 0)

Jahvol. Dankeshane.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:51:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

OMG. I am almost speechless.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:49:28 PM EST

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (2.00 / 1)

Homerun.  Again.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:52:28 PM EST

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (2.00 / 1)

Is anyone on suicide watch for the speech writers at the McCain campaign?

I would be taking away their belts, any sharp objects, their car keys....


On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....
by WashStateBlue on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:57:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (2.00 / 1)

Did you see the sad story of the day? McCain, his opportunity to stand on a giant oil well thwarted, leapt at the chance to meet with the Dalai Lama. Not to dissuade him from that by any means, but it does kinda scream, "PLEASE, PLEASE NOTICE ME!"


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:59:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (2.00 / 1)

Someone wrote the best line the other day. I wish I had saved a link, it was: "My friends, I've fallen in the polls, and I can't get up". If you know who said this, I would love the link.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:55:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

Indeed.  We'll know them by the lack of laces in their wingtips.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:00:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (2.00 / 1)

That wasn't a memorable speech .


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:55:48 PM EST

Are you serious? (2.00 / 1)

When was the last time anyone spoke out to the world and askes us all to work together is such a manner?


"No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown
by auboy2006 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:58:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

To be fair, have any of his speeches particularly blown you away?  


by HSTruman on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:58:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (2.00 / 1)

Lori would only have liked it if Hillary had given it instead....


On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....
by WashStateBlue on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:59:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

I don't think Hillary could have pulled it off or even gotten nearly the buzz or attendance Obama did.

Consider this, when was the last time any US official got that kind of response outside the US, hell within the US.  100K foreigners showing up to watch a POTUS candidate (not even the actual POTUS yet) give a single speech is pretty rock star like!


by tlhwraith on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:13:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (2.00 / 3)

Sure his victory speech in Iowa was great . 04 speech for Kerry , even his speech after his defeat in NH.

He is a great speaker , I just don't think this was his better ones.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:06:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

Fair enough.  


by HSTruman on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:25:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

Thanks for your clarification.


On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....
by WashStateBlue on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:32:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My thoughts (none / 0)

I partially agree. It was safe, and that's all that really mattered.

Substantively, he chided the Germans and Europeans into sending more troops to Afghanistan. That was important.

But much of it was consistent with his campaign theme.

The bar is set so high for him it's impossible to overcome it.

The key here was to get the visuals, look Presidential, and say something that sounded fairly tough toward Europe. He did that.

The speech wasn't as flowery as the DNC. But it was very successful.


by elrod on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:33:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My thoughts (none / 0)

I totally agree with what you have written .

Not much else to add .

When I say it isn't memorable I am not saying it wasn't a good speech both on substance and visuals but what I mean is that it isn't a speech anyone would be talking about next week.

We are still talking about JFK and the Gipper's speech in Germany today , but then again maybe that is an unfair comparison.

His 04 speech at the convention for Kerry is still being talked about today , so it isn't as if he hasn't delivered better speeches because he is one of the greatest political speakers of our time.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:41:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My thoughts (none / 0)

I am more interested in seeing how it was taken overseas, personally. I really do think it was made to be more for them than us, with just a couple of dog whistles that we'd pick up on.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:49:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

haven't seen the speech yet (none / 0)

think that his 04 speech gets talked about at least partially because it's his introduction.

I did watch his speech on Race, and that made me cry. He sure can give a good speech.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:17:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: haven't seen the speech yet (none / 0)

His 04 speech at the convention is a great speech , ranks with the better ones in American history.

His race speech didn't do much for me , I didn't think much of it.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:20:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

MLK Jr. Day Speech is my favorite (none / 0)

The bit about the "Empathy Deficit" in the world sold me on his candidacy back in January.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:25:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

wow. I know and have heard of (none / 0)

so many people who cried during the race speech.

I know that one (the race relations) will be in the history books, whether he wins or not.

I think what struck me there was how cognizant he was of where we are, the gaps in the bridge where people fall through, and also the profound sense of hope and determination. The concept that "we will get there."


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:25:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What about his speeches strikes you as moving? (none / 0)

... you've got me curious!


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:26:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're wrong (none / 0)

They will be talking about it next week, next year, and in years to come.


"No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown
by auboy2006 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:32:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're wrong (none / 0)

Absolutely agreed.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:38:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (2.00 / 2)

Really? You didn't find it interesting that he was insisting on tying Europe fighting the war on terror with peace and unity? That he got Germans to do the one thing that he was said not to be able to do, cheer at the prospect of being asked to send troops to Afghanistan? I think he might get some nasty words in parts of the press, but overall, this went over pretty well, I thought.

Elaborate? I always like hearing your take on this sort of thing.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:01:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

Also, what were you wanting to hear that he didn't say?


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:02:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

Nope.  Not memorable at all.  Junior Senators from Illinois frequently draw 100k+ crowds in european capitals.  


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:05:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ridiculous (1.33 / 3)

The primary has clearly stripped you of any ability to analyze speeches.  We get it.  He's got a penis.  


McCain = Iraq. John McCain = overturn Roe.
by PantsB on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:13:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (1.50 / 2)

Ah there's Lori with her daily insult.  Way to do the minimum Lori... way to do the minimum.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:16:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

Did you even listen to the speech? I would be suprised that anyone who heard it would not admit that it was a very good speech. Please explain why you thought it was so forgettable.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:11:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

like i said it was a good speech but not a memorable one.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:17:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

I guess it must be a perspective thing and you have an absolute right to yours.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:28:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

I noticed some folks leaving. Maybe this was a bust and he should have saved it for his american audience...


by Iceblinkjm on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:59:02 PM EST

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (2.00 / 2)

Maybe you wished Harriet had given the speech instead:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/6/2/16585 4/9848


On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....
by WashStateBlue on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:01:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

Heh.  Something tells me the crowd would be far fewer in number.  Increasingly so once she started in on inadequate Berliners.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:06:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

Now now. No need to play.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:53:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

Aww, shucks.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 07:18:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Give WSB a million zinger points! (none / 0)


by Beren on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:56:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

German TV just said that the police estimated the crowd with 215000 people.


by micha1976 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:04:36 PM EST

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

Gee, our very own whiny nay-sayers have already jumped in this thread to spread their cheer. You have to give them credit. They don't give up no matter how bad their cause looks.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:07:58 PM EST

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)


I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:12:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

I was listening for a short, memorable line that will define this speech. I noticed two.

"People of Berlin - people of the world - this is our moment.  This is our time."

and

"This is the moment to give our children back their future. This is the moment to stand as one."


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:09:34 PM EST

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

I was trying to find one but couldn't.  I don't think those are particularly good.

Although to be fair I never would have guessed "Ich bin ein Berliner" would have turned out to be so iconic.


I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:14:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

Especially since Kennedy got the German wrong.  It should just bin Ich bin Berliner.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:19:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

BBC article on Kennedy's Berlin speech (2.00 / 1)

Is here, when you see it in context it is really good. My friend's mother is from East Germany; when he visited her relatives they would drive up to the wall to wave to their relatives on the other side.

My friend brought blue jeans and Beatles albums to his cousins, and his cousins got really scared when they saw the Beatles album, fearing the neighbors would find out and snitch on them to the government. "You shouldn't have done this, you shouldn't have done this" they told him "we're going to get in trouble."

Something like 20% of the citizens were government informants; they didn't know who to trust.

They were really infantalized under that kind of government. The Beatles album story really illustrated that for me in a whole new way.


by catfish2 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:31:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BBC article on Kennedy's Berlin speech (2.00 / 2)

Hi Catfish,

Good post.

My experience was, after the wall fell, I made a call very deep in the eastern sector at a semiconductor company that a US company had bought.

Talking to the folks at the factory, what was fascinating was, after the wall fell, and the german government made their money good, almost immediately, according to the guys I was talking to, two things happen.

Everyone ran out and bought new TVs, because the Soviet backed government made it illegal to own a TV that got the PAL standard, only the SECAM.

That meant, no one in East Germany could watch West Germany TV.  And, if you were caught with one of those PAL TVs,well no one even tried.

The other thing, and this cracked me up, they said, they all immediatly subscribed to Playboy Magazine!

LOL! We immediatly polluted their morals, thanks to Hugh Heffner!


On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....
by WashStateBlue on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:45:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Awesome anecdote (none / 0)

TV and Playboy. I have nothing to add. So awesome.


by catfish2 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:52:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

East Germans watched Kennedy, couldn't wave (none / 0)

or cheer:

He was watched from the other side of the border by small groups of East Berliners unable even to wave because of the presence of large groups of the East German People's Police.

I add this because it took me a really long time to "get" the Cold War. Because there's so few things that were explicit, but like McCarthyism had an enormous silencing affect on people that creeped into their homes.


by catfish2 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:55:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Pornography isn't the problem. (none / 0)

Men 'cheating' on their wives with porn is a problem (at least tell her, and think about finding stuff you can both enjoy).

Plus don't mock Playboy, it's a standard in law libraries for a reason (free speech articles).


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:21:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

I don't think I should have used more than one sentence for each. Try them this way.

1) "People of Berlin - people of the world - this is our moment."

2) "This is our time."

3) "This is the moment to give our children back their future."

4) "This is the moment to stand as one."


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:23:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

1961: Berliners wake to divided city (none / 0)

(I love History Channel) BBC: 1961: Berliners Wake to Divided City:

Troops in East Germany have sealed the border between East and West Berlin, shutting off the escape route for thousands of refugees from the East.

Barbed wire fences up to six feet (1.83 metres) high were put up during the night, and Berliners woke this morning to find themselves living in a divided city.

Train services between the two sectors of the city have been cut, and all road traffic across the border has been stopped.

Thousands of angry demonstrators quickly gathered on the West Berlin side of the divide. At one crossing point, protesters tried to trample down the barbed wire, only to be driven back by guards with bayonets.

The West German Chancellor, Konrad Adenauer, appealed for calm, saying in a broadcast to the nation this evening: "Now, as always, we are closely bound to the Germans of the Russian zone and East Berlin.

"They are and remain our German brothers and sisters. The Federal Government remains firmly committed to the goal of German unity."

There has been outrage from the international community at the abrupt decision to cut off one side of the city from the other.

A Foreign Office spokesman in London said the restrictions were contrary to the four-power status of Berlin, and therefore illegal.

The American Secretary of State ...

Kennedy's speech was in 1963.

"There are many people in the world who really don't understand, or say they don't, what is the great issue between the free world and the Communist world - let them come to Berlin"
- John F Kennedy


by catfish2 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:07:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

This was a fracking great speech. Who disagrees? Please tell me why this was not an amazing speech.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:14:55 PM EST

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

The main commentator from Germany's biggest public television network quoted the police's audience estimate as 215,000.


by GermanDeaniac on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:26:11 PM EST

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

For a written source: http://www.tagesschau.de/inland/obama306 .html -

"Zuvor war er von den nach Polizeiangaben rund 200.000 Zuhörern mit "Obama, Obama"-Rufen empfangen worden."

"According to police reports, he was received by about 200,000 listeners chanting 'Obama, Obama'".


by GermanDeaniac on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:34:09 PM EST

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

So what's the rest of the consensus from the German press?


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:48:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

Cannot summarize it by now, but I think most expected a longer and "more historic speech". In the run-up to Obama's Berlin visit, the comedy section of DER SPIEGEL online even came up with spoof "historic sentences" Obama could utter (my favourite: "Hello Heidelberg!!!"). Some really thought he would try to emulate JFK's famous 1963 Berlin speech. I guess Obama deliberately avoided that.

It seems that the essence of his speech is generally summarized here by an emphasis on international co-operation.

Germans will welcome any president other than a Republican.


by GermanDeaniac on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:03:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Isn't that... (none / 0)

...a bigger crowd than he's ever gotten, anywhere?

Weren't we really impressed with 75K in Portland?


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:43:33 PM EST

That wasn't as much a speech (none / 0)

as community organizing on a global scale. It was an exhortation to action, heavy on the classic "we" themes.

Move the populace, the politicians will follow. What I saw was Obama laying the groundwork for future negotiations, by appealing directly to popular opinion. Their populace, not ours.

I wouldn't be surprised if a few EU officials weren't just a teensy bit unnerved.


by Neef on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:13:32 PM EST

Obama is not President (none / 0)

He might not be elected so the Germans and the world may work with McCain. McCain is not Bush so I am sure he will be greeted more warmly than Bush.


by whothere on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:25:21 PM EST

Re: Obama is not President (none / 0)

In many ways, McCain is worse than Bush when it comes to foreign policy. McCain wants a more confrontational attitude towards Russia and China. The proposals he's made would revive the Cold War. He has consistently advocated for military action against Iran, even more so than Bush.

Obama offers cooperation and McCain offers confrontation. The world isn't stupid. They can see the difference even if you can't.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:31:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama is not President (none / 0)

Other countries leaders wont boycott meeting with McCain. They would be respectful of the President.


by whothere on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:41:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama is not President (none / 0)

Who would boycott meetings with Obama?


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:49:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama is not President (none / 0)

No one would boycott a meeting with McCain or Obama. They would be treated equally. Crowd size wont dictate leader actions of any country.


by whothere on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:02:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama is not President (none / 0)

Whothere, what is your point? Are you trying to be fair and balanced for McCain? If you are, then why are you here? If this is so, then you are irrelevant to me.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:12:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama is not President (none / 0)

And I have not seen anyone who is not respectful of Obama. I am not sure what planet you live on, but this is the way the world responds to real leaders. Ones that do not need to steal election or go to war to keep their offices. You must mistake me for someone who thinks you have a point.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:51:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama is not President (2.00 / 1)

Yeah and Russia has been really freaky lately.

<According to Reuters, Russia's Foreign Ministry responded to the news in a statement: "If the real deployment of an American strategic missile defense shield begins close to our borders, then we will be forced to react not with diplomatic methods, but with military-technical methods.">
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0709/p99s0 1-duts.html

and

<Moscow is angry about U.S. plans for missile-defense sites in eastern Europe and Izvestia cited a "highly placed" military aviation source as saying, "While they are deploying the anti-missile systems in Poland and the Czech Republic, our long-range strategic aircraft already will be landing in Cuba." Izvestia said this apparently refers to long-range nuclear-capable bombers.>
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/2 4/world/main4288940.shtml

Yikes!


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:46:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama is not President (none / 0)

Totally agree, and furthermore:


Regardless of how missile defense should be seen by Russia, the Russian's clearly see it as antagonism at best, a tangible threat at worst, with the likely reality being somewhere in between. Nonetheless, it provides Russia the political opportunity to posture strategically against the U.S. and project its image as a power abroad, which is both good for its international standing and the government's domestic appeal with American popularity at such a low.  The problem for someone like John McCain, though, is that he wants to continue the antagonizing rhetoric and policies towards Russia (including kicking them out of the G8) at a time when we desperately need to develop a new Russian strategy in order to tackle struggling strategic concerns for the U.S. such as nuclear proliferation and Iran.

Adam Blickstein - Missile Defense Chess Democracy Arsenal 22 Jul 08

I have long suggested we trade away the expensive and divisive European missile defence in Europe for a Russian rapprochement with us on Iran and the South West Asian region in general.  Fair enough we continue to compete for energy resources but even, especially, Russia doesn't want a nuclear capable Iran or a jihadist insurgency in Afghanistan as an outcome, all on their southern border.  They are content to see us discomforted in the meantime, to be sure, as it gives them some free reign to make mischief, but their long term goals and ours are not dissimilar.

If people don't think that was an important subtext of Obama's speech I'm guessing they are missing one of his main points.  It was a loud and clear dog-whistle to the Europeans on exactly not returning to the conservative's 'comfort zone' of the Cold War when foreign policy was pretty simple and we always wore the white hats.  It's all McCain understands, incidentally, I think he is more dangerous than Cheney in many ways.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 06:32:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama is not President (none / 0)

I really appreciate what you have to say, especially your thoughts on this region. I hope you are still considing writing that big fat diary on the Pakistan/Afghanistan nexus. I would be especially interested in the role you think Russia and the US are playing in this region. And anything you have to say about Iran would be very interesting to me.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 01:59:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Live From Berlin Thread (none / 0)

I can see I'm going to have to write it in chunks, when work permits.  It's just too big as subject otherwise.  And the Russian angle is pretty interesting, it's a little outdated but I wrote a short diary on Putin's visit to Iran in October last year, for starters.  They are not a minor player in the region, that's for sure, but we forget about them too easily and they are our global competitors, though not necessarily our adversary.  

Thanks, by the way, for the vote of confidence, I was writing a lot late last year but as the primary wars got overheated the foreign policy diaries just scrolled off the front page without a whole lot of apparent interest.


by Shaun Appleby on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:49:35 AM EST


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